The Teacher Burnout Podcast

Episode #49- Choose Your Own Master Class
[00:00:00] In today's episode, I'm going to be talking to guests, Beth pan Dolpho and Katie Cubana. I'm so excited to have them on the podcast today. We're going to be talking about their new book, choose your own masterclass. And this book is going to give you so many different tools that you can use in your classroom. And they're going to be sharing some of those tools.
And also they're going to be talking about how to beat teacher burnout. This is all coming up next, right here on the teacher burnout podcast. Stay tuned.
Welcome to the Teacher Burnout Podcast, where we explore the challenges of burnout for teachers and share practical strategies to support teacher well being. I'm your host, Barb Flowers. If you're a teacher looking for ways to prevent burnout or an educational leader searching for strategies to support your team, this podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.
Well, welcome to the podcast today. I am so [00:01:00] excited to have guests with us . Today I have Beth Pandolfo and Katie Cubano with us, who wrote the book, Choose your own masterclass. ,. So I'm really excited to have them. This is a wonderful book.
And today we're going to talk about the book and share some ways that you could use it in your classroom or in your school. So I'm just going to start by having the two of you introduce yourself and then talk to us about why you wrote this book. I'm Beth Pandolfo. I have taught English for over 20 years at the high school and college level. And currently I'm working as an instructional coach in a central New Jersey school district for grades six through 12.
And I'm Katie Cubano. , I taught English for a little over a decade before moving into an instructional coach role. , I'm home with my one year old right now. , so not currently in the classroom or instructional coaching. At the moment actually supervising student teachers for, uh, the College of New Jersey.
And loving this new, , way to be a part of, , the work I care so much [00:02:00] about. Oh, that's awesome. In the book, Choose Your Own Master Class, it's really interesting how it's set up because it is different topics and they are actually standalone chapters. So talk to me about, , why you decided to write a book and why you decided to write it in this format, what that meant for you.
Well, Katie and I met in 2019 when we began working together as instructional coaches on a team. And we were part of some book club experiences. And we just, we noticed how much as English teachers that we loved the idea of uniting people through a book club, but also all of the problems that come with that.
And some of them were that, you know, it was going to be a book club faculty meeting, but then they had to go over testing protocols. So then the book club got rescheduled. And then we noticed some people love the book and not everyone loved the book. And we were just thinking about how could a book be designed [00:03:00] that could get buy in from everyone, that could withstand long stretches of time between readings.
So that was part of our thought process. And then the other part was personally, When we first met, it was kind of amazing. We both were listening to and reading the same kinds of things. And as educators, we really both got a lot of inspiration from things we were reading outside of education. So, you know, books from like Adam Grant or Brene Brown or podcasts that Katie was listening to, which she can, chime in.
We loved the on being. Podcast. And we always saw everything through the lens of an educator. And it kind of gave us these unique, interesting ways of seeing that were unique, that weren't like filtered through educational publications and watered down and renamed. And we were thinking like, that would be a great If we could bring all of these ideas from outside [00:04:00] disciplines, so teachers could think about them in their own way and how they applied to the classroom and then maybe Katie can talk a little bit about how we piloted it in the school with this book list book club and how well that went and it reinforced.
are thinking about it. Yeah. So we noticed that we were super energized and excited to talk about what we were learning from outside of the silo sort of of education. And, , we decided that we would create a short series called the Bookless Book Club, , , for our colleagues. , we were working as, again, as instructional coaches on the same team at the time, We were serving all of our colleagues, , teaching grades 6 12 in all disciplines, , so it was a big task and one that, you know, we really enjoyed.
And what we found was, again, not only did this feel super energizing for us to be talking about ideas from outside of the field of education, but whenever we happened to sort of be sticking around at the end of a meeting [00:05:00] or maybe we were having an instructional coaching session and, you know, it had wrapped up and we started talking about what we were reading or something like that.
Our colleagues were likewise just so engaged by the opportunity to talk about what from outside of our immediate circumstances they were reading, listening to, thinking about, and how it applied to our work. , so with that in mind, we launched this Booklist Book Club. We decided on five or six texts from outside of the field of education, , invited folks to come to some PD sessions, totally voluntary, during the school day. They would come and we would either have an excerpt or a video stimulus or something to either read or listen to, which gave them a sense of the ideas that the author had. So for example, one of the books that we love doing that really informed some of our thoughts on the book too was Range by David Epstein.
He talks about the importance of really diversifying interests and pulling from [00:06:00] those interests as a means of understanding the world in a better way. , so. That was one that, that we brought in. And again, , our educator colleagues just, the conversations were so rich. , and I think that they really appreciated the opportunity, as Beth mentioned up front, to think through something without it having trickled through the education bubble.
, they were getting access to those ideas directly, and they were able to consider how they might apply them to their own contexts and come up with creative solutions. I just want to add something to that also, when we stepped into the instructional coaching role, suddenly we were in meetings with principals planning professional development, and we actually noticed time constraints, and barriers to, you know, why professional development sometimes looked the way that it did.
And we just thought that we could package this almost as, like, we can be your instructional coach. Here's PD that you can The questions are there. [00:07:00] It's differentiated. It offers choice. It can withstand, you know, stretches of time between reading. There's questions to jigsaw across chapters. So as an administrator, you could do this transformative kind of PD experience where everybody is getting to choose their own master class.
And from everything Katie and I read, it's these cross disciplinary conversations and looking at things through a new lens that is where you come up with creative solutions. So we were thinking like this empowers teachers to come up with the solutions that work for their students from research based insights.
So the way we structured the chapters where we highlighted three thought leaders from across different disciplines. And then we said, like, this is what we think. And then we kind of, it's really like, what do you think? And what would work for your students? So we just thought it offered a really dynamic experience for teachers and really lightened the lift for administrators.
[00:08:00] And just thinking about teacher retention. That if teachers could feel respected as creative individuals where they make choices and come up with original solutions, that's empowering professional development. I just want to say I was really excited, too, when I opened up the book because I'm really big into personal development as well, like what you're talking about with listening to podcasts and other people outside of education.
When we so just one quick example. , when I read Adam Grant's book, Think Again, and one of the quotes that really resonated with me is that the best way to change people's minds is to have them change it themselves.
And as an instructional coach, that really helped my work with people because. Just because I thought that their supervisor was coming down on them and that that should, you know, inspire Improvement or change that doesn't work for everyone. Some people that makes them feel resistant So sort of it really inspired me to tap [00:09:00] into what the person cared about And then have them rethink their practice because it mattered to them.
So it was like gems from these books that I felt really helped me with my job in a way that reading every instructional coaching manual wasn't going to help me. Because even these books about business or economics, they're all about people and education, you know, it's like the Starbucks quote is we're in the people business serving coffee, like we're in the, education business, you know, serving children or where, no, yeah, we're in the, sorry, we're in the people business and like, we're serving education.
So it's really these insights about people, what works in organizations, what works, you know, from the field of psychology and neuroscience, and then, you know, putting that lens, that spotlight onto your work and making decisions. that makes sense based on what we know about how people interact with one another.
So I think [00:10:00] that's to me what was so powerful and I wanted to make available to teachers during the school year when, when you're, you're doing the work and you're not picking up a lot of these nonfiction texts during the school year. That's summer reading. So we were thinking, how could we deliver this that it could be on the spot PD that you go into work tomorrow and you just think, okay, the kids aren't doing what I want them to do because they need to buy in.
I kind of missed that part. I thought they would want to do it for the greed. I thought they would want to do it because it's the right thing to do. But no, I need to get this buy in. And then suddenly that makes sense to me, not because my principal told me. Because I figured it out and now I understand and that's what we wanted to give to people and package it in a way that was digestible during the school year.
I love that because I do think there's so many different, like you said, nuggets that you read from these personal development books that maybe they don't even need to read the whole book, but just having that from you in this book is really [00:11:00] helpful and they can then integrate it into their teaching.
Yeah. And that's something I'm, you're a fan of Brene Brown. There's lots of nuggets from her that you, I'm sure you apply all the time because they really stay with you and, you know, they inform how you act. So that was what we wanted to offer teachers, um, or educational leaders. That's what we wanted to offer educators in a book club.
So when I saw some people like Brene Brown and other people that I had recognized who weren't in education, I got really excited because, like you, I love that idea of incorporating that into what we do in education. I think there's so many good things that we don't take enough time to talk about.
We spend so much time on just content that we don't always get to hear from these different thought leaders who have great ways that we can improve teaching and instructional practices through learning from them as well. I also love that you talked about the [00:12:00] idea of, choosing your own masterclass and people having differentiated PD because I know as a principal, one thing that we always struggle with when planning PD is thinking about, , people like specialists or who might not have, , reading PD they need to do or math PD that they need to do.
Do you want to go through and Let people know what the topics are that you included in the book. Sure. , one thing I also want to say is when Katie and I, , if you can imagine, we had 15 different topics. Yeah. Yeah. And then, then we had the challenge of, it can't just be, we didn't want it to be the Beth and Katie book.
We actually took people from our work and we were just like, okay, like this person from the PE department. Yeah. Like what chapter are they going to want to read? What is this person going to care about? So we tried to really think grade 6 through 12 and pick colleagues from across disciplines and that helped us curate , what we thought, you know, maybe some things that all teachers would care about and then maybe that some [00:13:00] people would lean in, , closer to.
So the book consists of six standalone chapters and standalone, almost like they're long research articles. They have an estimated read time, so people can pick according to their interests, their most pressing need, the amount of time they have to read. The first chapter is on emotional intelligence, and we highlight three thought leaders.
And the first one is , Leonard Mlodinow, who is a neuroscientist. And so he talks about the brain research and how our emotional lives affect our decision making. We highlight Mark Brackett, who is a part of the Center for Emotional Intelligence at Yale. He consults with CASEL,
. So he's very involved in emotional intelligence and does a lot of work with educators and schools. And then lastly, Sean Ginwright, who is a professor and an activist. And he talks a lot [00:14:00] about How are emotions affect our decision making chapter two focuses on balancing technology use in the classroom.
We highlight ideas from Jenny O'Dell, who's an artist and professor of art and design. , she talks a lot about how addictive technology has come to take our attention wholly off of our external world and place it sort of. Only on our phones and our technology at all times and what we might do to get free of that a little bit and to start, , seeing a different way for, for us to interact with one another, , Cal Newport, who's a writer and researcher.
We highlight his ideas on addictive technology, , and what the individual can do. , so Jenny O'Dell talks about it more from a cultural perspective and Cal Newport takes on what steps individuals can take, To reconnect in very authentic ways, with those around them through conversation. He talks about prizing conversation over digital connection.
And then Johan [00:15:00] Hari, who is a journalist, , did a deep dive on big tech. So on the tech industry and attention in society. So we have, , the considerations of how technology needs to be rebalanced at the cultural, the individual, and the society level in that chapter. , chapter three is fostering civil classrooms for a more civil society.
, and in this chapter, we highlight ideas from journalist and writer Ezra Klein, , founder of Vox, the website Vox, the news website, and, podcast host, The Ezra Klein Show, one of my favorites. , we look at his ideas on barriers to civil discourse, and we consider the implications for the classroom there.
We look at ideas from Adrienne Marie Brown, who's an activist and facilitator on, , turning toward interdependence. So learning to, both respect our deep, , seeded individualism while also thinking about what aspects of interdependence might help us move forward in a way that allows us to relate to each [00:16:00] other, , more civilly across difference.
And we highlight ideas from Frances Kissling, who is a women's rights activist who has done extensive work, communicating across the deep divide around, , abortion. So, , we really consider ideas on how we find the good in the position of the other and how considering that might help us to move forward and, , Become less divisive in our society.
And so thinking about all three of them and what are the implications for our work with students every day, , to help them start to heal the divisiveness that we see and what do we do in our classrooms that sometimes set kids up for debates when maybe it's not a debate, maybe it's a conversation and how we can foster civility in the kinds of experiences we have in the classroom to foster civility because there's enough polarization and people on opposite sides trying to [00:17:00] argue their point and maybe in schools we can be able to cultivate a different way of being.
Chapter four is supporting student growth and mastery through teacher leadership. So thinking about teachers as leaders and the leaders of their classroom and the thought leaders highlighted in this chapter. There's Renee Brown on daring to lead and a lot of her insights.
are about leadership and they apply to administrators and they apply equally to teachers. , Melinda Gates writes about responsive leadership in, in her book about her work as a philanthropist and a lot of , what she learned about going into other cultures and trying to, you know, You know, fix things about how much you needed to really be responsive to the culture of what and these people's lived experiences in order to affect change.
And that is true as we step into a classroom and we have, you know, a different class of students. You can't [00:18:00] it's not a one size fits all job. You have to listen to the people that you're there to serve. And then James Clear, who wrote Atomic Habits, and just about building good habits really provides a lot of insight of how you might structure your classroom norms and routines to help students build habits that help themselves and help the class as a collective.
Chapter five, we dive into reducing decision fatigue to increase equity. , so we talk about ideas from Daniel Kahneman, who is Nobel Prize winning psychologist and economist on our, , flaws in our decision making, reducing what he and his colleagues, , called noise in, , the book of the same name. We look at, , insights from Emily Oster, who some of the parents listening may be familiar with.
She is an economist. , And also a parenting data expert. So she gives data [00:19:00] driven parenting, , advice, , and she talks about the business of decision making and how, , you know, we look at how her discussion of how when we run our families. like a business with a mission statement and with goals that we revisit, , we can make some decisions in ways where we're not always scrambling.
, you know, so she talks about, for example, Kids birthday parties and how if you go to every birthday party, you're invited to and you have two or three kids that really adds up over the course of a year, you could spend a lot of weekends at Chuck E. Cheese. So she talks about coming up with a mission and coming up with some, some larger goals and priorities for your family.
. In this small example, that would be deciding how you're going to decide which birthday parties you go to. , it sounds like minutiae, but we know that a lot of teaching is making these micro decisions about how we're going to spend our time. , whether it's, you know, what we always do on our prep, what our [00:20:00] students should always do coming in the door, these things matter.
And these micro decisions. add up. So we look at, , her insights for informing how we might, , , do that work, , with greater confidence. And the last one we look at in that chapter is Barry Schwartz,
, and he talks about, , he's a psychologist who talks about how having too much choice, , can really harm our ability to make good decisions because we're always thinking that we could have done it a different way. And, , this one, I think we, we loved thinking about how. , the Pinterestification of teaching and the teachers pay teachers phenomenon, , especially when it comes to new and novice teachers, how that's, that's creating a lot of noise as Daniel Kahneman would say, , in the decision making process and how we might, , start to cut out some of our use of those things in order to focus on what matters.
Yeah, and just another word on the paradox of choice, which also he refers to as the tyranny of choice, that you, you know, you don't need, you [00:21:00] know, all of these variables. If you decide how you're going to decide, and maybe a paint, paint chips, you're just going to pick between three. And maybe in, you know, decisions you make with your students, maybe it's you've decided how to decide, so you're not going to make different decisions for different students.
Katie, you, Katie, did you say Pinterestification? I did. Yeah, I like that. Well, I just want to give an example, because there's a teacher this year who's new to our district, and she's a chemistry teacher, and on her first, one of her first days with the students, she literally, like, lit fire in her hand.
And it was just what a, what a way to start the year and the kids were on the edge of their seats. And then I met with her when she was, you know, preparing for observations and she was looking at Pinterest and all the amazing things chemistry teachers are doing. And I said to her, you lit fire in your hand.
But honestly, from looking at Pinterest, she had really [00:22:00] watered that down. She didn't see herself as Pinterest or Tik TOK worthy. She said to me, you should see the chemistry teachers on Tik TOK. I said, you lit fire in your hand. , so I think that all of this noise. And all of these options and choices become paralyzing.
And not only paralyzing, you know, Barry Schwartz writes about that. It's like this opportunity costs. Well, I decided to light my hand on fire, but look what that other cool teacher did. I should have done that. And then you actually, even if you did something wonderful, you end up feeling not great about it.
And it's kind of a good thing to know because. You know, you do make a lot of choices, and it's depleting to feel badly about the things that you choose. Particularly if you're lighting fire in your hand and the kids are on the edge of their seats and your supervisor walks in and says, she was one of my best hires.
And then I sit down with her and she says, you should see [00:23:00] what teachers are doing on TikTok. I love that you bring that up because I do think that that's such a huge problem that we have right now with comparison because of the internet, no matter what you do, you feel like you're not good enough. And so teachers, it's hard to just enjoy teaching.
Yeah. And teaching is depleting enough. Without that extra noise to, you know, to make us feel, you know, more unworthy when many teachers are already so hard on themselves. You know, we're, you know, we're the, the A plus students who, you know, okay, we're going to do it better. I'm going to do it better. Even if you're really doing it, you know, exceptionally well.
The last chapter is called telling stories that lead to liberation. And this is about how we talk to kids and about kids and how we think about kids and how the words that we use. , he is an activist and he writes, he writes about and talks a lot about what he calls asset framing that you look at people in terms of their strengths.[00:24:00]
And when you look at people and think about them in terms of their strengths, not ignoring their weaknesses, it helps you serve them. Nobody wants to be seen as like, I'm on the school to prison pipeline. Like that person is not looking for help from you if that is how you see them. But if you see them as someone who hopes one day To go to college.
That changes how you interact with that student. , Elizabeth Gilbert, we highlight and she talks a lot about telling truer stories and about yourself and how when you talk negatively or think negatively about yourself that you put barriers in your way that are artificial and you've constructed. And then Adam Grant on the power of rethinking.
So when we think of telling stories that lead to liberation, it's liberation for the educator, because we also tell ourselves stories that we're not good enough, and also how we deal with our [00:25:00] students or interact with our students and our colleagues. And I guess the other thing that I want to say about the structure of the book, which we're really excited about, is if you choose one chapter, and you, there's introspective exercises to think more deeply, there are classroom strategies that you can implement, and then there are chapter specific questions for you to apply them to your practice.
And if you only do that, and you that's the master class that you've selected for this time in your life. That is a full experience. If you're part of a book club, and you have a colleague who read a different chapter. There are questions for each chapter that are designed for cross conversations. So even if you don't read every chapter.
You can learn from who read about decision fatigue and kind of marry that to teacher leadership conversations and asset framing and telling to her stories. And we feel like that's where ideas come from. Katie and I, that's where we get our ideas. She says, I listened to this podcast. You want to listen to [00:26:00] it?
And then I say, this reminds me of this. And she'll say, you know, Oh, that also makes me think about. And then we're like, let's write a book called choose your own. So we can, we can provide this, you know, kind of like as a gift to administrators, like here, we just actually planned your PD for the school year.
You know, and teachers are going to love it because they get to choose. And I love all the time that you put in it with the researchers and the thought leaders for each chapter because there are some great people in this book that you're referring to that, you know, have done a lot of great things. And so I think the fact that people can just go to this chapter and learn like atomic habits, I would recommend for everybody to read, but I love how you broke it down and, you know, teachers can see how they can use it with kids.
I think That's such a great idea that you did and all the topics are such great topics and important in education.
What recommendations do you have [00:27:00] for teachers related to burnout and just helping them with their own well being so that education feels more sustainable for them and the things that they're doing? Well, the research really indicates that educators make upwards of 1, 500 decisions a day, which is about three decisions a minute. And if a simple Google search, that is what it will yield you. So the terms that we use in our chapter from thought leaders is this idea of decision fatigue. It's so exhausting.
Educators are so exhausted at the end of the day because we're all required to make moment to moment decisions, and these decisions that we make impact our colleagues, those we supervise, and our students, and I guess this idea of decision fatigue It's kind of taking a step back and deciding how to decide making some decisions about how you're going to decide certain things.[00:28:00]
And we have exercises about looking at your values, looking at your principles, what matters to you. And then how are you going to make these decisions and then some of the decisions you were making about extensions or late work, or is it time to call a parent or do I not call yet? Is this an email?
Is this a phone call? If you make those decisions in advance, then that eliminates those decisions. So I just think in terms of. Protecting yourself from an excessive amount of decision fatigue is to try to simplify the decisions that you can decide in advance. So it's like, can I have an extension? Well, I know who gets extensions under what circumstances.
I have a very clear policy. I don't need to answer and then second guess and then wish I didn't say it. And I think there's a lot in teaching. We do that because we get caught off guard all the time. By what you [00:29:00] know what students ask of us in the higher grades, and I taught primarily high school. I used to say to students if you need to ask me something not about a grade, but about, you know, you are going to miss class because you have something with chorus or whatever.
I should just say just email me because it the onslaught of students like running to my desk to tell me all of these like little micro It kind of made me insane. It was , so much stimuli, before I even began teaching. So I used to, I loved to come in and then I could just smile and nod when they left 15 minutes into the class.
And I felt so much more in control. So, although I didn't have a name for it at the time, that was how I managed my decision fatigue. . So if they were asking for permission to do something, I always told them that's an email. Maybe other teachers don't want you to email them, you know, outside of school, I want you to, I need to come in, like, these are my 125 students and these kinds of [00:30:00] things I just don't want to deal with when it's time to begin class.
, that helps me manage my decision fatigue, just those sort of micro little pieces of information. I could just decide before. You know, yes, you can go. That sounds fine. Thanks for letting me know. At least then I knew, oh, Barbara's doing this tomorrow. And then you just walk in, you smile, you wave to me, and we don't have to have a conversation and have 23 other students waiting for me to finish talking to you.
Yeah. I love that. Because decision fatigue is so real and we are all so tired when we leave school because of decision fatigue. I feel physically exhausted because of all the decisions. . Absolutely.. And I think something , that can be a challenge for new and novice teachers is. Making decisions that are grounded in a rationale. There are so many to make. There is so much to learn on the job.
So when we look at the insights [00:31:00] from Emily Oster, who wrote The Family Firm, and we talk about establishing your classroom firm, we talk about starting with, , what is one of your deeply held values as an educator? And when I think through, what is that value?
How can I anchor my important priorities for my students in that value? How can I use. That value and my priorities to make a big picture schedule that helps me to make sure I am working in a way that again that that is in alignment with my values and my priorities. So for me as a teacher, one way that this has always manifested, , is in thinking about the importance of independent reading for my students.
I want my students to be lifelong purpose driven readers and writers. And so if that's the case. , if I want them to have reading at the core of their identity, to have the opportunity to develop as a reader, one of the most important priorities [00:32:00] for me as classroom teacher is getting books in the hands of my students and making sure that they're reading them.
So making sure that they're reading them as in making sure they're enjoying them, and if they're not, we're getting a new one, right? As a part of my big picture schedule, , there's not been a time when I am in a role as a classroom teacher that I have not thoroughly planned.
independent reading and all of the attendant things that go into having a strong independent reading program into my schedule. , so that means book talks. That means conferencing. That means, , plenty of time for students to talk with each other about what they're reading. , that means plenty of time for students to choose new books, which takes so much longer than we think it would, but it does for us as adults too, right?
Even to choose show. All of that stuff gets planned into my schedule ahead of time. So I'm never feeling like, ah,
not going to get to read for 15 minutes today because I have to finish this unit. Because I really got to get them ready for this quiz. It's [00:33:00] baked into my, to my approach to the teaching of, of IRLA, to the teaching of high school English, to the teaching of literacy.
, so thinking in that way, and, and I'm not saying that every person, I'm talking specifically now about brand new teachers, I'm not saying every person is ready to know. What they want their big picture to look like. But I'm not saying that every person is not ready to know either. I mean, I'm working with pre service teachers right now, and they're phenomenal.
Some of them and they for sure know what their deeply held values are. So helping them translate that into their daily practice, I think, is a way to reduce the decision fatigue to and a way to reduce that feeling of getting blown around by all of the responsibilities of the classroom. And I do think with so many new teachers to the profession, you know, particularly, and I'm noticing this now we have a lot of teachers that are going alternate route to get their certification.
You know, in an accelerated program, they're really not focusing on how To establish your classroom [00:34:00] firm and your routines, and particularly at the 6 12 level, that's just not, you know, you learn primarily, you know, your content and some best teaching practices, but classroom culture and the norms and the organization and what students come, what are they expected to do when they walk into class, what are they supposed to take out, you know, if you're a brand new teacher and you don't have some of those things in place, And you aren't clear on what your values are and your priorities are it affects everyone in the class So I really think that particularly if you're new to the profession And that's not something you've explored and it's not something someone can give you nobody knows what you value and You know, why you became a teacher in the first place.
Only, you know, that, and when you want to incorporate that in your classroom, like what's my mission statement, what is, you know, what are my norms? What are my routines? What are students going to do when they come in? And it creates psychological safety for [00:35:00] students. And I have been working with a teacher this year and she is from a different profession.
This is her first year being a teacher ever. And she is. An AP teacher. So she's wonderful in her content 'cause she's so knowledgeable from the field. But there are so many things about being in a classroom with 25 students is just not, and I had said to her, the kids love her. She is so kind and organized and smart.
And I just said to her, you have time to become the teacher you're going to be. Because you have the most important thing in place. And I think sometimes people can know their content really well, but if their classroom isn't structured, and there's, you know, all of these micro decisions to make, and we don't have time for this, it makes everyone feel off balance.
So I think it's so important for teachers and for students to make these decisions, you know, upfront I called it when I was a new teacher, I called it class systems. I didn't, you know, [00:36:00] there wasn't a name for it, but I was like, these are my class systems. Yeah, I actually that's what I called it class systems, and I made this, but I don't know but I think I intuitively knew there had to be a system, nobody told me there had to be a system, and now with more reading.
I was making my family firm, I was making my classroom firm, I was writing my mission statement, and that anchored me, but nobody taught me how to do that. And what I like about the ideas in this book is , it doesn't give it to someone. It inspires you to think about it and create it for yourself.
And that's enduring. That's when learning endures, when you make the decision yourself. Yeah. And I love that idea of just knowing your purpose, why you're doing it, and then allowing kids to be involved in that as well. I think that's, that's great. It's, you know, really important for getting them on board with that classroom culture and those systems in place.
Well, Beth and Katie, thank you so much for being here today on the podcast and talking about the book. There's so [00:37:00] many great things. I can't recommend this book enough. Choose your own masterclass.
How could people get in contact with you guys if they wanted to reach out or ask any questions?
Okay. So, um folks can feel free to reach out to me. , just at my email is fine and it's just Kate banno@gmail.com. There are not a lot of us out there in the world. Maybe just me, , so it's just Kate Banno, K-A-T-E-C-U-B-A-N o@gmail.com. And that's, that's the best way you can follow me on Twitter, which confusingly I think is at Katie Banno.
That's okay. So just add in the I. How about you guys? Yeah. Well, I'm on LinkedIn. Um, and I'm less active on Twitter now, X. Right. Yeah. Um, but also by email. So I say the email that I would prefer is through my website and it's connect at [00:38:00] Beth Pandolfo dot com. All right. Awesome. And I'll put links to both of your emails in the show notes as well so that if people want to reach out to you, they're able to do that.
Thank you podcast. I appreciate you being here and I think there was a lot of value in today's episode.
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