The Teacher Burnout Podcast

Empowering Youth Through Literacy: A Conversation with Children's Author Carmen Rub
[00:00:00]
This episode is part of the National Literacy Month with RAF campaign, a partnership between the Bee Podcast Network and Reading is Fundamental to host numerous productive conversations across our network of podcasts about developing kids reading and literacy skills for life
Welcome to the Teacher Burnout Podcast, where we explore the challenges of burnout for teachers and share practical strategies to support teacher well being. I'm your host Barb Flowers. If you're a teacher looking for ways to prevent burnout or an educational leader searching for strategies to support your team, this podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.

Well, welcome everyone to the podcast today. I'm here with Carmen Rubin. She is an acclaimed and beloved author of children's books, interactive eBooks and playwright. And after a short stint of teaching school aged children, the native San Franciscan .
began writing full time. So for decades. She has used her voice to empower youth, promote literacy, [00:01:00] and works diligently to bring diversity and inclusion into literacy and education. When she's not visiting schools, she partners with bookstores donating books to communities worldwide, especially those that have been affected by natural disasters.
She also volunteers at local libraries and served on the National Advisory Board for Reading is Fundamental. Her best known work is Ash meets Birdman. Al has lyrically warmed the hearts of many. And other book titles include The Gifted Guitar, honcho Hates Mud, and Ty the Trash Collector.
So welcome to the podcast, Carmen. Lots of things there that you've done. Lots of books and a lot of work with literacy. Yes, yes. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So let's just jump in with what inspired you to start writing children's books. Well, , I would say that the kids inspired me, you know all of my roads in life have always led to children.
, when I was a child, I loved reading books and I loved [00:02:00] writing, you know, I thought I'd be a songwriter and. Definitely flopped on that one, but, , I always wrote and, , you know, after, like, like you said, a shorts, a stint of teaching, I would just notice kind of how the kids would just gravitate to me when I would read to them, you know, I was always very theatrical and, and they loved it.
And I loved that cozy. Part of the day where they would just come closer to me as I was reading , and a situation happened at the school where they were about to lose the music program. And I had a feeling about that, you know, me being a, an advocate of music and the arts. I, didn't, I didn't want that to happen.
So I said, you know what, let me take this leap of faith and write this. Book or write a story about how, , music inspired me. And I started, you know, reading it to the kids and. Then I started traveling a little bit and writing and then I, you know, it was [00:03:00] just a love that, that happened. And, , and I'm still doing it.
It's almost 20 years that I've been doing it. So it's the kids that inspired me , and also the subtle activism part of it that I get to make a difference with how I put my words together. Yeah, that's amazing. And you're right. That was my favorite thing about being a teacher. I was an elementary teacher and, you know, kids can be loud and all over the place and not be able to sit and then you get a story and they can just be so hooked and engaged.
And that was one of my favorite things doing with kids was just reading and having them engage in books like that. Yeah, I love it. Your work often empowers you through storytelling and your experience, what role do authors play in giving kids the confidence to become better readers and writers?
Oh, that's a good question. I think that it is my responsibility. I'll speak for myself as an author [00:04:00] and, it's my responsibility , to make it fun. You know, because I do believe that, you know, how you put the stories together, it matters how they're expressed and how they're told. And I think that when you make something look fun, then kids want to jump in on it, right?
, and they will participate and then you ask them to give that back to you. , and so I think the first thing is to make it fun. Make it look fun and make it fun. So the other part of it is, it's funny. Cause I get this question all the time by kids. , when I go on my author visits, they'll, they'll say, you know, they call me Mrs.
C. They say, Mrs. C, you know, are you a millionaire? Are you rich? You know, I always get that, right. And. I wondered why that was from every school that I went to, why I always got that, that question. You know, I got a lot of other questions, but it was, this was the one, you know, the one question that I got every time I, moved, , from school to school.
And [00:05:00] so, , I was like, how do I answer that question? But what I, when I started thinking about that a little bit more, it was what they're really asking me is if I do this fun thing that you're doing, will I be able to live? Off of it. Is it something you do if I try it? Because I'm always saying, you know, you can be an author, you can just write, you can be a songwriter.
You can do whatever you want to do with your words. Put them together. You can change laws by putting words together. Right. And so when they, when I realized that it's like, they're really not asking me how much money I make. They're really asking me If this is something that they could do if they would be able to live off of it.
And so I think that when I kind of understood , that that's what they were really asking me is that I needed to, again, find a way to boost or keep boosting their confidence that, yeah, being an author, writing books, , giving words to other people to change something in the person who's receiving it, [00:06:00] that they could also do it, do it too.
And so I think that, you know, , as authors are just, writing our stories because it, because it is a lonely space, and job. Right. And then it goes on to you get help from others. But, , I think that we have to remember who we're really doing it for and why we're doing it. Right. Remember the why.
And I think when you're putting your words together, having them in mind, you know, when you give it to them, you know, that it's going to do something for them. And that also includes building their confidence in the work. Yeah. And probably like you said, when you get to then you write the story and you get to see the kids that just motivate you for the next, you know, work sessions that you're doing to write the next book.
I mean, I'm on the playground every time I go into a school. I love it. I'm going to be 55 years old. And, when people see me, they're like, I didn't realize that you were that age. And I'm like, it's the kids, it's being around the kids. And so they're contributing something to me. And we're making these [00:07:00] offerings to each other, which I've come to find out over these years.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. , with your background in teaching and your current work in children's literature, how would you advise families to make reading the center of everyone's attention at home? Oh, that's a real, I love that question. Yeah. I always tell parents, you know, when it feels like a job to, to a child, they're going to give you a little bit of, , Push back, right?
They're not going to want to do it. And so you have to, get creative, like you're teaching them and they don't know that you're teaching them, right? So when you're taking a road trip and you play the alphabet game, who can get from A to Z first in the car or having kids, , reading the, the signs, right?
You can get creative , in that way. , and I think the best way to show anybody anything is just by doing it. Right. If I'm reading a book all the time, I'm the example. If my time is spent, my quiet time is spent reading books. I think that's something that kind of [00:08:00] trickles over. And that's kind of the way that I did it in my family.
, is they always saw me reading something, go read the cereal box, look at the ingredients and read me back the ingredients, you know, get, , into it with them without them even knowing when you're at the grocery store. Oh, go down aisle seven. And they're picking up these words and I think that that you can do it simply in that way.
But I really do believe that the best way to show somebody how to do something is just by doing it, just being the example, having books all around. The last thing I want to say about that is, , this is what I would do because my oldest daughter was an advocate reader. My youngest daughter liked to be read to.
She didn't like to read on her own. Right. , and , those nightly moments of just being with her was just the way that we just really bonded. So I didn't have a problem with reading her because I would reading to her because I would act everything out. And so, you know, it was, it was just like a whole fun experience before we went to bed.
And so, I just think that , when you're doing it and they don't know that you're [00:09:00] doing it, that it becomes a part of it. And so sometimes when she didn't feel like reading, I would be talking about. Like miss, let's say we were in the car, I'd be talking about a scene that was in the book or thinking of a place that was in the book and what this particular care, I would talk about the book where I wasn't actually reading it, but I was talking about the story in that way.
And so she really got into the stories that way without me even having, even having to read the book to her, we would just be talking like we were having girlfriend talk, but we'd be talking things that I had read. Yeah. I think those are great ways. It's funny as a. A teacher, I remember saying to parents, giving them suggestions, you know, read a certain amount each night.
And then now as a mom myself, I see what you, what you're talking about. Like you just have to integrate it. You have to make it fun because if I say sit down and read this book for 20 minutes, I mean, my son will bite me. Yeah. It's terrible. So I love that to make it integrated. [00:10:00] Yeah. Yeah. Just integrate it in everything.
And then, incentivizing things are a great way to, you know, like let's get three books, , read, or, there's these, , trails that I walk every day and there are, you know, story books on these trails, even on the beach, like summertime, there's like the stories that they have along the boardwalk.
, and I think that when you incentivize. , especially like, your readers or your kids who are not readers. I think when you say, let's do this and then I'll do this, you know, I'm always here for a little bribe. Trust me, you get the ice, you know, you get the ice cream, let's finish up this chapter.
, and also just, again, just making little small steps to it where, where they don't feel like they're at school when they're at home. Yeah, yeah, that's good. As an author who really champions diversity and inclusion in your literacy, how do you see diverse groups handling literacy challenges and what unique approaches have you observed that just might benefit the broader community?
Oh, that's [00:11:00] good. So what we're doing is I know from, from the author perspective, I know , my writer friends, my colleagues, like we're writing more books, right. And pushing, , , our audiences to independent bookstores, right. We're pushing them to get out and try new things, take trips, road trips are a great way, , to, get, to incorporate it in there.
And I think that, , what I've been seeing lately. In the diverse groups, and so they're having like play dates, like reading play dates where they'll go and like, you know, the parents are sipping coffee or tea and their kids are also in the, in the spaces, , reading something as well with whatever they're drinking, you know, milk or chocolate, whatever, but they're actually.
Getting together, like social gatherings, just for moments of reading and quiet time and trying to get their kids away from the devices for a moment in the day, you know. , what other unique approaches? I just think that people are paying more attention to literacy. Oh, a big one, [00:12:00] you know, reading to grandparents and grandparents reading back and forth.
That's a really big one that I'm noticing that the grandparents are getting involved in the nightly schedules, you know, as they're getting older and maybe living at home with the grandchildren or when they go over to the grandchildren that, , grandparents are really getting into these children's books.
I mean, I didn't know so many grandparents love picture books. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Of them bonding with their, their grandchildren, because they don't want to participate with, with the devices. And so they're cuddling up, you know, and, and I love that, bringing books on, on, on family trips, you know, where, when you're on the beach that you're playing building castles, but you also got a book, you know?
How do you champion diversity and inclusion in these books? , what are ways that you promote that? How do I champion diversity? How do we do this? , sometimes it's just showing up, right?[00:13:00]
Yeah. Show up because I did not grow up with. Anybody that looked like me writing books, right? Yeah. Reading books. There was Judy Blume. There was, , Silverstein, , Shel Silverstein. There was Roald Dahl. You know, I, those were some of my favorites and, , it wasn't until later on that, Maybe even in high school, my last year of high school that I had even read my first, book of author of color.
And so , I feel like just by me showing up into the space, right. Say that. And I think that there are a lot more. Authors showing up in the space and letting kids know that we are doing this and we have stories to tell. And, , and also putting, , people of color in our stories, right. Yeah. All of my, , illustrators are black men, right.
That's a way, but. , I just think that we're just showing up [00:14:00] now to author, to bookstores, like you're seeing more black people in bookstores. We didn't grow up going into bookstores, stuff like that. So I think , , just being an author and saying yes to the request to come to the schools is a very big way of , championing, the diverse aspect of the, of, literacy and literature.
Yes. Yeah. And I think it's so important and I was always really intentional as a teacher, you know, making sure that you have multicultural books in your library, like you said, so that all kids are seeing kids in books that look like them because it, it's not like they shouldn't just be seeing books and the kids all are just white kids in the books.
They don't represent the diverse group of kids in the class, the diverse group of kids in the world, you know? And so letting kids get those different experiences. , I think that's awesome. And having more than just a character, one black character, even in a white [00:15:00] story, maybe a white child with a black child or Hispanic child.
And then there's a group of kids having the experience with the main character, even in the white stories. We know how we've been seen in white stories. Right. And so I think that, you know, it's, it's, it's also my my goal to make sure that I'm also doing the same thing on the other side, right?
I make sure that even with, , having predominantly black characters, , my first one was a female character, black female character. I just try to make sure that I have everybody that when a child opens up my book, they can see everybody. , and a lot of the main characters are black, but.
There are other characters that they're having connections with inside the stories. And I think, that it's really important to do that, but I feel like it's not hard work to show up. You know, I think that kids need to see more of us. I mean, One thing that I'm happy to say is that in 2000, I want to say 2014, [00:16:00] there was 6 percent of black authors that were being represented even in the publishing industry.
Right. And I think it's gone up to like 42 percent now. Wow. That's a huge difference. And that's, I think that's since 2022, it's a huge difference. So it's saying to me, That we're, that we're getting on, you know, that, you know, we're on the right track. We're on the right track and, and librarians are really jumping in on a bookstores and jumping in on it.
They're telling you go over there where the band books are right. Let's go over there to, you know, to the stories where you might not be comfortable. And then the parents are really getting in on it as well. Like they want. A lot of them want their children to know, , about other cultures and stuff because one, the food is good, right?
They're eating the food. So they want to know it a little bit more than you have. Like even in Asian with Asian representation, like we're eating, we're eating these foods, we're getting involved in, in anime, we're [00:17:00] getting skincare, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so it's just like, why not introduce, you know, A story about an Asian girl who, you know, is trying to teach her friend how to make sushi, right?
Yeah. I have stories about that. So, , but I think that we're all trying to do it in, in, in ways, and it's moving, you know, we still have our. You know, we still have the things, but I think that if we just keep showing up, that it's, we're going to be okay. Yeah, it was really interesting. We had a book fair, , when I worked in the school as a principal and there, the PTA mom came to me and said, the book fair, everything was delivered.
And there's one box that we just want you to go through because it's considered like the controversial box. So I grabbed my school counselor and they said, Hey, can you help me look at these books? And we're looking at the books and I said, can you tell me what I'm missing? Is there a deeper meaning? Like, what am I missing here?
How is this controversial? It's controversial because hair is [00:18:00] kinky. And you don't want it, you know, you don't want it straight. Right. I was like, it just floored me. I think it opened my eyes to , I can't even believe this isn't a thing that's considered controversial. There's nothing in it that was.
, that opened my eyes a little bit more and then I had the option to say no to putting those things out, like , that particular, , bin of books. And so I just think it's really important that. You know, teachers and principals and everybody in the school are so aware of this, that we're making sure we represent our students because in situations like that, it is so easy , or even if that mom hadn't brought it to me and just her herself put it to the side, like these things can easily happen.
And so we have to be aware. And there are schools that are still saying absolutely not, , I'm not gonna, make it seem like it's fluff everywhere. I have friends , who have been invited. I mean, and we're talking about New York Times bestsellers been invited.
And then at the last minute, it's like, no, because they think she's going to come in with an [00:19:00] agenda to speak about the discrepancies or , , everything that's going on with being represented and they just, and they excused her. And so, , or uninvited her, , but like I said, we're still, making some progresses.
And I just say, if we just keep showing up, parents, teachers, librarians, bookstores, authors, children, because. , we still live in a , capitalistic society. Right. And so if you demand the books, if kids want to read the books, they're going to provide the books to you.
So everybody has to participate in this space. Yeah. So it's not just, , BIPOC, you know, Asian Pacific, it's not just that group. It's everybody. We have to do it together. Yeah.
So you've been involved with organizations like reading is fundamental. How does RAF help get books in the hands of children? Well, you know why I love reading is fundamental for I've always loved [00:20:00] reading is fundamental. , and I've always loved them because I've always felt like it was just the real organization, , doing what they said that they were doing.
And that's what they've been getting books into the hands of kids ever since I can remember. And so, you know, when I was asked to be on the advisory board, it was just a no brainer for me because I've seen the work out in the community. Right. And, , and for the, , events that I have participated in.
I mean, they hold a really good party. They hold parties, right? I mean, I was just in LA, this was a few months back, but I was in LA for one of their book events and they had the in and out truck. I mean, and, and I mean, they, they just go all out. And then I'm looking at literal, like in these communities, families, That would never, ever show up to grab a book filling, you know, the boys and girls club feeling, you know, [00:21:00] auditoriums, multipurpose rooms at schools and stuff.
And so I just love the work that they're doing. It is, , to a very high standard that they do. I mean, the balloons, the, the, the sponsorship with, you know, their partnerships. , I just love the fact that kids can walk around to tables and grab a couple of books and take them home and they don't have to pay for them.
So, , that's one of the reasons why I kind of stay close to reading is fundamental is because they're actually doing what they say that they're doing. And another thing, , when they, when I joined the board, one of the, , wonderful things. And one of the things that I, , respected about the leaders in the conversations is that they sat back and they listened.
They asked, , all of the people of color in the room, , what can we do? How can we make this better? How can we fix this problem? How can we get more books? And they didn't come with the agenda to tell us what needed to , be done. They came to [00:22:00] listen. And I was, I really appreciated the fact that they sat back, they listened, and then they went to work and we were , all able to put our heads together and, , let them know what's going out or going on in the communities and what kids need and what, , families from all different backgrounds would require.
if you were to go into their space. And so I really appreciated that about them. Yeah. Yeah. I love that they give out books to kids and they give them that access to having new books for themselves because kids do get so excited about that. Especially when it's free. Yeah.
. So your book, As She Meets Birdman Owl has touched many hearts and I saw on your website and can you talk to us a little bit about the Peppermint Candy Club? Gosh, the Peppermint Candy Club. It's so cute and how it relates to your mission of promoting literacy and empowering youth. Yeah, the Peppermint Candy Club is, is one of my favorites.
My grandfather, [00:23:00] who was 97 years old, And my grandmother was 92, but my grandfather started this peppermint candy club. When I was a child and the club was for, you know, all the kids that had a situation at home, right. He was a minister in the church and he wanted to make sure that these kids felt like they were loved.
And I was in that because I lived with my grandparents. Sometimes I lived with aunts and uncles and stuff. And, you know, so we had a little situation at home and my grandfather. What he would do is he'd do, it was almost like magic. He'd pull a peppermint from up underneath this hat or from inside, you know, and he'd pull out this peppermint and he'd tell you to hold on to it.
He'd have you look at it, tell you to hold on to it, not to eat it. And every time, you know, and it was almost like your induction into his peppermint candy club. Now it didn't cost you anything, right? , you just had to hold on to it. And do what granddaddy said to do. And he said, I'm showing you love basically.
Every time you see this peppermint candy, [00:24:00] you're going to know that you were in granddaddy's peppermint candy club, and you're going to know that somebody loves you. And anytime you forget. Somebody loves you. You're going to remember the granddaddy. There's nobody else in this world. Granddaddy loves you.
Right? So you have to carry this. And everybody wanted to be in granddaddy's peppermint. I mean, he wouldn't, you know, tell other kids no, but, but the peppermint candy club was just about showing love. And he would say, if you hold this peppermint, if you have a peppermint, every time you see it, you have to remember the granddaddy loves you, but you also had to show love to somebody else.
And then he'd ask you, , what are ways that you can show love? Right. And so I decided to, when I started, writing to incorporate hidden peppermints throughout my stories. And it was also another way, not only to talk about this peppermint candy club and to continue to spread love, because I did promise granddaddy that I'd have a million kids in his peppermint candy club before he turned a hundred.
Not only did you have to show love, I'm sorry that he was giving you the, but you also [00:25:00] had to show love. And so what I decided to do is I had to put it, I had the illustrators put them in the book. And it was just another way for me to have the kids continuing to hold on to the book. Right. So it was just another way for them to stay in the book, even after they read it.
So making it fun, like a where's Waldo type thing, right. Was just another way for me to keep the book close to the kids. And that's the favorite part of my interactive visits is that when we, when I'm finished reading the kids, Absolutely love to go in , and look for the peppermints and every school that I go to, I ask, you know, how many students we have.
And then I just add that to the number of the kids who are now in granddaddy's peppermint candy club. And then I asked them, it's simple who wants to be in granddaddy's peppermint candy club. They raised their hand and then we talk about ways that we can show love. So he's always excited to see that we've, , He's gone on a couple of, , author visits with me.
And the kids just [00:26:00] love granddaddy. I call him America's favorite granddaddy. , he said that in the video and , he looks great. I was so impressed with him. I know. And he's 97 and so he's gone from like, you know, he just sticks to Texas now where he lives. Uh huh. Because he just doesn't do the travel as much, but when they see him coming, oh my gosh, they just love it.
And he'll tell them about, and then he'll do a birthday dance with them. It's so cute. He's just, he's really an amazing human being. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I love how you've integrated that into the book and like you said, where kids can find the peppermints throughout. That's really cool. Yeah.
, and the other thing too with that, and I want to make this a point that in every single one of my stories to date, , there is an elder in there. I want to make sure that we do not lose the element of the elder. Right. So we'll see. Yeah. I'm going to be putting it in a little bit. Somewhere lingering around in the story as well.
And that is inspired by me, who, like I said, I'm [00:27:00] still so lucky to have both of my grandparents and I want to make sure that kids, cause you know, now grandparents are like in their forties. Now. So. So, yeah, but they just, you know, I just want to keep the intergenerational thing going as long as I can. Yeah, that's really great.
Well, thank you so much, Carmen. I appreciate having you on the podcast. This has been great. It's fun. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.