The Teacher Burnout Podcast

Classroom Systems for Success with Jacqui Le-Mon
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Teacher Burnout Podcast, where we explore the challenges of burnout for teachers and share practical strategies to support teacher well being. I'm your host Barb Flowers. If you're a teacher looking for ways to prevent burnout or an educational leader searching for strategies to support your team, this podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.
Well, welcome everyone to the teacher burnout podcast. I'm so excited today. We have a guest with us and our guest is someone very special. It's one of my best friends growing up and we both actually went into education. And so I'm excited to have her on today because we have very different experiences, but a lot of similar interests.
, So, my friend Jackie Lamont is here and she has experience as a middle school teacher and in administration. So I'm going to let her kind of go into more detail of her experiences and what she's done in education so far. Okay. Well, thanks Barb. [00:01:00] I'm very excited to be here. , and yeah, I started, as a middle school teacher.
I've taught eighth grade, I've taught seventh grade. And then I worked as a curriculum coordinator, you know, leading teachers in fifth through eighth grade, , and ELA and social studies. And that's when I kind of bridged into some of the elementary world. And then I've been an assistant principal, and the elementary school.
So preschool through fifth grade. And, I'm going to be moving back into a middle school assistant principal role. So , I really have looked at like, you know, been in kindergarten through eighth grade classrooms at this point. But, yeah, I'll probably speak a little bit more specifically to middle school experiences.
Because that's what I was teaching. Yeah, and it's been really fun in our friendship because as we both been teachers, you know, I've had the elementary background. Jackie's had the middle school background. And then in the last two years, she's gotten the experience of being in, [00:02:00] assistant principal in an elementary school.
So I think there's a lot of great experiences that you bring to this. And today we're going to be talking about systems for success in the classroom. And I think It's such a great perspective because you had really great classroom management and systems set up in your classroom. But then also it's such a good perspective when you get to bring in things that you've seen from being an assistant principal and a curriculum coordinator and being in lots of different classrooms and working with lots of teachers.
Because myself being in the role of a principal, I can never stress enough that there's so many ways that teachers set up their classrooms. And I remember being so worried as a teacher that I wasn't doing it right, but when you go into classrooms, you see that everybody has a different personality, a different way that they set it up, and it works for them.
And that's , the most important thing is that you find something that works for you and your students. , yeah, 100%. You know, I'm going to just kind of go off on a side too. That's kind of the nice thing about if you're able to do like walkthroughs or get your [00:03:00] teachers to be able to see other teachers and what they do, because I think it's really helpful.
You know, I think about our new staff and mentor mentee, like how can we get teachers to see other teachers when they're newer? Because there are a variety of ways to do things. Yeah. And how can you pick and choose what works best for you and your personality? And, , I know some teachers it's like, Oh, like this reward system that I have set up works really, really well for me.
Some teachers it's like, well, that reward system isn't like working as well. So, you know, what are the things that I'm going to implement and how to Does that structure need to look? So I think it's just helpful for especially like newer teachers to see that there's a lot of different ways to do it.
, and then also , you're not on your own. My first year of teaching. I was like, Oh my gosh. Afterward, like at the end of the year, I was like, okay, that did not go like how I envisioned. That was my big thing is I have systems that, I need systems in place.
And I was teaching eighth grade. And I just [00:04:00] knew so for example, when they come into the classroom, what are they doing? What is it going to look like? Where are my materials going to be? How are my desk going to be set up? These are things that I think we consider and then it's trial and error.
And, after doing different things for a year is like, okay, these are the things next year that I know I want to implement. , , and I think you've spoken to this a little bit, but like that idea of being reflective at the end of the year and then setting a goal. If you're a newer teacher,
what are the specific systems and classroom management things that I need for next year to be successful? Yeah, and I think, , as we go into this podcast episode, one thing I want you to keep in mind, we're recording this as we get ready to go back to school, but Jackie's first position, she actually started, what was it, October?
Yeah, I started, it was like end of September, basically what they had, is they had a teacher and then a teacher left and then they moved classes around. So the students were [00:05:00] moved from one teacher who was still there. And then they gave that teacher the other class that the teacher had like retired early.
So it was a kind of a lot going on for kids too. So, you know, they were overwhelmed and, then, you know, I was trying , to figure out and build relationships and, and do all of that, like, after the start of the school year. Yeah. Yeah, and I had one year when I was teaching third grade that I had a baby in July.
And so I actually took off the first nine weeks and I was just talking to a teacher about this, who's doing the same thing. And I'm like, it really is fine because when I came in, then, when I was back, I just pretended it was the first day of school. And so no matter when you're listening to this, or let's say, You're a brand new teacher and you start the year and you're like, Oh my gosh, this has been terrible.
I need to do something. You can always start with a new day one. So anything we talk about today, just remember, you can start with a new day one, whether it's in January, November, it doesn't matter. , it's a great time to restart once you get these in place. [00:06:00] Well, I would add to that too, especially as kids are , older, like you can talk to them about it.
You know, when I was teaching eighth grade, I was kind of like, I need to level with you guys, yesterday to not go well, like, and here were some of the things that I noticed. And so that's why when you came in today, your desks are different and you're going to notice , find your name tag.
I always did assigned seats, , for my students. I know some teachers are like, well, that middle schoolers choose. And I was like, we're not making great choices. Like we could maybe hear that later. , But I would tell the kids like it. These were some of the things that I saw that just did not go well.
And so, I felt like we were off task this many minutes of class. And this is probably why. And so we're going to try something new today. You can tell kids and tell them the reason why you made changes and how you want to set them up for success. That's part of it. And, I feel like students are typically very responsive to that.
Yeah. And I will say I even had those conversations a lot my first year teaching first grade and they [00:07:00] were like, okay, they never, you know, that's what I love about little kids. They're just like, whatever, we'll do whatever you think we should do. So, but I want to start by talking about.
What is the difference between a routine and a system? Because we talk a lot in education when it comes to classroom management about routines. But we know that systems are so important for success in all areas of life. So what does that look like to create a classroom system versus a routine? And how are they different?
Yeah, so your overall system is going to be what is your goal and then like what is the overall framework you're going to use to achieve that. And then the routines are the are the things that like you build into your day to day that students, , they know what the expectation is.
So, for example, I thought a lot about how I wanted to structure my I always was lucky enough [00:08:00] to teach a block of time so 80 minutes roughly. And so, my system was how am I going to structure this 80 minute block of time. And then. For example, my classroom management was part of that. what is it going to look like, when my students come in?
And then the routines were the specific things that kids would be doing each day, that were built into that system. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So, Yeah, if you're thinking about a behavior system , your system is really your overall big picture for the environment, like, I want to follow PBIS.
I want to have clear rules and expectations. I want to reinforce positively. I want to have fair consequences, and document behaviors, things like that. But then the routines, Go in that system and they match what your goal is and what you're trying to accomplish. Yeah. So, , and you know, like We had talked about [00:09:00] with like, for example, PBIS, , teachers that, have a reward system in place,
the students know and understand things that are going to earn them points or tokens or things to redeem those rewards. And so they understand that big picture system and then they understand the small routines that are going to get them those things. Those things.
So another type of system just to give an example of the communication system. You know, you communicate via email and remind and a newsletter and then you create routines within that. Like, I'm going to email parents. Maybe one pair in a week, or I'm going to send out a weekly newsletter, however that is, but having those routines within that big system.
Yeah. And I would say, you know, just a side note. It's nice to know what your school is like, what's maybe your principal or what is the, , system , that, maybe the expectation. Cause some places they do have an expectation , I've worked in places where . , the newsletters actually went out monthly, but they were, , for the [00:10:00] middle school interdisciplinary teams.
So the eighth grade ELA, social studies, math, they did the newsletter together and it went out once a month. And that's really nice because it provides an opportunity to share, but, you can divide the role if you're feeling overwhelmed. So. I think it's nice to know.
And that's middle school. And then I've seen more elementary where the teachers are doing, you know, a weekly newsletter update. so I think it's nice to know, , is there an expectation what do people like to do? And talk , to staff or your principal. Yeah, I think that's a great point, because, even we were using Remind, Class Dojo, Blooms, every teacher had their own system, and we found that it was really confusing for parents, and so we worked as a building to get everybody on the same page, and then now even the district went to something called Bloom.
Parent square, you know, we also are parent use parent square. Yeah. . and parent square is a perfect example where it can be a building classroom and district wide communication system, , that teachers then fit what they [00:11:00] want to do within that system. So I think that's a great point to see what.
Expectations. The district has your principal has all of that. , how do you involve students in the creation upkeep of the systems to ensure engagement and that they're cooperating and using the systems properly?
Yeah, I think, you know, whenever you start something new, like I kind of talked about having the conversations with your students about, you know, if it's the beginning of the year, then you're just really like, this is, this is the way, Like these are some of the things that you're going to see when you come in the classroom.
I know that there's like different opportunities, for example, , you know, collective agreements or class norms or, you know, having students involved in that process, , signing it, putting a poster in the classroom. That's, I think, one example of getting student feedback in those areas.
I know, , for example, where I'm assistant principal currently, we use CHAMPS, , for [00:12:00] students, so, , going over, , what is CHAMPS when you see it on the board, , what do these things mean, how does that help you to know the expectations, so kind of, like,, setting up, , kids to know and understand, and then I think, You know, so much of it is practice.
We're going to practice this first week, , what it looks like when we do this routine, for example. And then you can get, you know, always ask kids for feedback. How do you think you did with this? I was really big on, just asking students for like those quick check ins, whether it's like a thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs to the side, or, you know, a quick post it note and having them put it like But like, what are getting your feedback that way?
Like, how did this go for you? I will say too, you know, sometimes, for, for middle schoolers, like if things weren't like going particularly well, then it was like, okay, like I was trying to give you a little bit more autonomy and we're going to step back because like. that didn't, it didn't, we didn't handle it well.
[00:13:00] And so, you know, we'll try again. But right now, like, I'm going to, we're going to reign it in and I'm going to like put you back in these seats or, you know, so I think like it's that balance of, yes, like I do want to give you autonomy and also like, These and this is what it should look like. And if it doesn't look like that, then I do need to pull it back.
And, and, and, and this is why, because like, my big thing is always like, if, if somebody is not learning, that's the problem. Right. Right. And if you're disrupting the learning environment. Or, you know, I say that , as an assistant principal to, to teachers, like if a student's disrupting the learning environment, then that's the problem because we're here to learn.
So, so what are your thoughts on, you know, in my experience with kindergarten through being in a kindergarten through fifth grade building, our kindergarten, our first grade teachers, second, like are wonderful with. Expectations and all of that. And I'm not saying that the other teachers aren't, but I feel like when the kids are younger, we're [00:14:00] really intentional about teaching them every little thing.
And then as they get older, we kind of just expect that they know things. So in your experience with middle school and maybe upper elementary, what have you seen with that? Oh, 100%. I talk about this all the time, especially as I'm looking at moving back into, , middle school world more, but, That, that was one of my realizations pretty early on as somebody who was teaching middle school is that there is this idea that, well, they already know they've been doing school.
, Oh, Okay, well, , one, whenever students go into a new teacher's classroom, like you need to tell them the expectation and show them and model the expectation. It's different, especially if they're changing classes, because different teachers have different routines, right? They have different systems.
And so to expect a student to just come in knowing that doesn't, doesn't work. Isn't helpful. And I would even say, even [00:15:00] at the high school level I student taught ninth grade and then I sat in on articulation meetings and, I would hear things like, well, they, come in and they don't know how to use , the e textbook and I'm like, Well, yeah, they haven't had the e textbook.
You got to teach them how to use the e textbook. Like that's not something that the eighth grade teachers can prepare them for that they don't have that resource. So, you know, regardless of the grade level, like we really, we have to set that expectation as to one, I'm a new teacher and this is what I expect and what things look like in our classrooms , and also, speaking to , Kids as they get older, you know, I really truly feel like you start seeing, , kind of that early prepubescent in fourth grade really is the, that piece, like the hormones of like middle school, their executive functioning is not there.
I used to talk to kids all about, I'm like, your prefrontal cortex is, are developing and We have to set them up for [00:16:00] success, and explicitly teach executive functioning skills to kids. and that really is something that you just, you start to embed right into , your system. So for example, you know, I would have an agenda up for students every single day, that agenda, like some of the things were the same daily, every day we're going to start with bell work every day, the bell works going to be.
This particular thing, and this is where you find it, and so , by the end of quarter one, , I would have a little timer, kids would be in their seats within three minutes, they would have their binders in front of them, they would have, , they knew, they just knew that this is what we do, and, I would put the time it will take next to the task, because , we really need to help kids see, like,, Okay, about how long should a task take us and that again, executive functioning skills that we need to kind of model for them.
What materials do you need, right? , these are all the things that We need to help students to know and [00:17:00] be able to do so that they can function successfully. And I would argue, especially middle schoolers, because they, do have so much, , with , what's going on with hormones and all of that, that they, just need that guidance.
Well, and as someone who loves life coaching and coaches others, I think of a lot of the skills that I help adults with are skills that we assume kids know and they know how to do. But yet I research and learn these skills all the time to coach others. We, as the educators have to constantly be coaching ourselves and coaching kids on.
time management and how they're thinking about things. You know, we talk a lot in education about growth mindset and just these different things that we assume kids know, but we as adults are still learning. So we need to think about how every little thing we need to be teaching to kids to 100 percent I think about, , you know, things like one of the questions I always like to , and then the other thing that I think of is, how do they know how to be successful [00:18:00] in a particular lesson or unit or , do they know and understand what success looks and sounds like?
And I ask teachers that a lot, as we're kind of having, you know, coaching conversations , , but that's in every area, right? That's, their routines. That's like the classroom management. It's their, the specific content that they're learning, no matter what it is, , do they know and understand?
And if they don't, that's on the teacher to make sure it's clear to them. And I think that once you realize that, , that's going to set the tone and you know, what routines do I need to have in place to set that tone and make sure students know and are able to do it? , you're going to see a lot of more success in your classroom.
Yeah. Well, thanks Jackie. I think you've shared a lot of great things that teachers can take into the start of the school year. I'm going to put in the show notes ways that you can reach out to Jackie. If you want to ask her any questions about things she talked about today. [00:19:00] But I hope that you found some things helpful that you can take into the new school year.
And like I said, if you're listening to this, even mid year, it's never too late to really reflect on what systems you have in place and change what you're doing because. You always want kids to be successful. You'll be less frustrated. You'll be less stressed and overwhelmed when you have systems in place that make kids successful.
You're going to have less behaviors in the classroom and it's just going to be an overall better environment. So I hope everybody found something they can take with them. And thanks again for listening to the teacher burnout podcast.
if you want support throughout the school year on dealing with overwhelm, reducing stress, learning to set boundaries, all of the things that really cause burnout for teachers, you need to join us and the resilient educator academy, this academy is such a great place to get the support that you need. To feel successful in teaching throughout the year.
In this academy, you get access to all of my courses. You get group coaching, you get one-on-one coaching. You [00:20:00] even get Monday motivations and access to a private Facebook group. So if you're wanting to join us, I hope that you do, you can click the Lincoln. The show notes and get started right away with us and the resilient educator academy.
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Keep in mind, you have the power to shape your life. According to the mindset you choose. I hope you have a great week and I'll see you back here next time.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.